Thomas Berry, Author
(Excerpts From Interview, Issue 21 of Heron Dance)

Thomas Berry Photo and Sketches

Photo Credit: ©Caroline Webb 2003

Tom Berry became a Roman Catholic monk, he says, because ever since childhood he has been a brooder and family life would have been difficult for him. He has taught university in America and China and is author of several books on Zen Buddhism and on a new, emerging view of the cosmos that encompasses both astrophysics and a reverence for creation.

I became aware of Tom Berry six years ago when I interviewed nature photographer Jim Brandenburg (author of Brother Wolf and White Wolf). At the end of our interview, Jim handed me a book by Berry -- Dream of the Earth -- saying, "This book has influenced me probably more than any other." As described in “Reflections Of A Wild Artist,” the work of Thomas Berry has also had a profound impact on Heron Dance.

In Dream of the Earth, Berry explores the importance of a culture's story of creation:

For peoples, generally, their story of the universe and the human role in the universe is their primary source of intelligibility and value. Only through this story of how the universe came to be in the beginning and how it came to be as it is does a person come to appreciate the meaning of life or to derive the psychic energy needed to deal effectively with those crisis moments that occur in the life of the individual and in the life of the society. Such a story is the basis of ritual initiations throughout the world. It communicates the most sacred of mysteries... The deepest crises experienced by any society are those moments of change when the story becomes inadequate for meeting the survival demands of a present situation... Our story not only interprets the past, it also inspires and guides our shaping of the future...

            In the late sixteenth and early seventeenth centuries another historical vision was introduced, by Francis Bacon, the vision of a better order in earthly affairs through scientific control over the functioning of the natural world, a vision that was first articulated as the doctrine of "progress" by Bernard Fontenelle in the following century. This vision found its fulfillment in the industrial age of the past two centuries. Whatever their differences, both liberal capitalism and Marxist socialism committed themselves totally to this vision of industrial progress which more than any other single cause has brought about the disintegration that is taking place throughout the entire planet. By a supreme irony this closing down of the basic life systems of the earth has resulted from a commitment to the betterment of the human condition, to "progress."

            ... The pathos in our own situation is that our secular society does not see the numinous quality or the deeper psychic powers associated with its own story, while the religious society rejects the story because it is presented only in its physical aspect. The remedy for this is to establish a deeper understanding of the spiritual dynamics of the universe as revealed through our own empirical insight into the mysteries of its functioning.

            In this late twentieth century that can now be done with a clarity never before available to us. Empirical inquiry into the universe reveals that from its beginning in the galactic system to its earthly expression in human consciousness the universe carries within itself a psychic-spiritual as well as a physical-material dimension. Other­wise human consciousness emerges out of nowhere. The human is seen as an addendum or an intrusion and thus finds no real place in the story of the universe. In reality the human activates the most profound dimension of the universe itself, its capacity to reflect on and celebrate itself in conscious self-awareness.
- Thomas Berry, Dream of the Earth (from the introduction and
page 131)


That concept of the human mind representing the way the universe reflects back on itself kept coming back to me and so I approached Tom Berry for an interview. We met at his apartment above a former horse stable on the outskirts of Greensboro, North Carolina. I rang the door bell. He appeared at the top of the stairs and shouted down, "Welcome friend." For a year or so, Tom has been a subscriber to Heron Dance. We sat in his living room. I sketched him while he talked, something I rarely do. Most people are too self-conscious to be sketched during an interview. Tom, however, retreated into his own internal world and not to notice me. He sat comfortably in a chair, wearing several layers of clothes on the cool October day we met. He amazed me with his knowledge of human cultural history. He also talked about the roots of human creativity.

From my interview of Thomas Berry:

"Dante said that human art is the grandchild of God. The human is a work of art. When we in turn create art, it is not purely out of ourselves, but out of a continuation of the creativity of the universe.

            "For a long time, there have been two major schools of thought on the universe: random and determined. Religious people think that God runs the universe. Generally, scientists believe that everything is pure chance. There is a third option. Dobzhansky, the great geneticist of this century, said the universe is not determined or random, but created. It self-creates. Even chemical elements self-organize. They are dynamic articulations. Both individually and in relation to each other.

            "Since the universe began, its three major tendencies have been differentiation or articulation, the bonding of different parts, and spontaneity. The universe is divine precisely because it is composed of parts. All creative realities are composed of parts. They go together to create something new.

            "The tendency towards differentiation is counterbalanced by bonding, or, in the physical order, gravitation. No one knows what gravitation is. An attraction between bodies. Newton knew how it operated but he said he didn't know what it was. And we still don't. But it is why the Earth must be round. The bending back toward each other, the spherical shape, allows things to be. Otherwise we would have just an endless proliferation.  

            "Anyway, the two forces of difference and bonding mean several possibilities. If the differentiation is stronger than the bonding, then the universe would explode and drift off. If the bonding overcomes the differentiation, then it collapses. One more possibility is equilibrium but if there is equilibrium then there is fixation. Nothing happens. There is only one possibility of having a universe. That is a creative disequilibrium. The process by which the universe self-creates.

            "Art emerges out of a disequilibrium in search of a new equilibrium. The creative act itself is the emergence of something new. That is why it is so important to create. That is why the artist is always at the margin. Nothing creative ever happens at the center. The artist revels in the ultimate disequilibrium of things. Monet's impressionistic art was something new. He blurred the outlines and expressed something that couldn't be expressed any other way.

            "Artists have something in them that is wild, something guided and inspired ultimately by imagination. The universe from the beginning has been poised between the expanding and the containing forces, and no one knows if this creative balance will collapse or will continue indefinitely."

Tom Berry, from the video The Great Story.

The universe is a communion of subjects, not a collection of objects. And we have this from our first awakening to the universe. Your first impression when you see a flower or see a tree or see a sunset or see the ocean, or see anything in the natural world, your first impress is a communion experience. How wonderful this is:  to live in the universe where there’s a sun in the heavens; where there’s so many wonderful creatures of Earth; where the song of the birds and the butterflies and the cicada in the evening. What is all this? Obviously, it’s not a collection of objects to be used. Obviously, it’s a world to be venerated. It’s a world to be communed with, to be present, to be delighted in, and together to have a certain experience that might be called ecstatic experience. 

There’s one experience that I think has had a very deep influence on my life. When I was about ten years old I saw a meadow and I saw it first in spring time — in early May is a communion experience. It was filled with wild lilies. And that sight, together with the sounds of the insects — the crickets, the birds — all of this somehow struck me in such a way that ever since then that meadow has become my norm of reality and value. A good economy is what makes that meadow survive. Good politics protects that meadow. A good religion is what enabled me to understand the deep mystery in the meadow.

How wonderful this is:  to live in the universe where there’s a sun in the heavens; where there’s so many wonderful creatures of Earth; where the song of the birds and the butterflies and the cicada in the evening. What is all this? Obviously, it’s not a collection of objects to be used. Obviously, it’s a world to be venerated. It’s a world to be communed with, to be present, to be delighted in, and together to have a certain experience that might be called ecstatic experience.

If we don’t have certain outer experiences, we don’t have certain inner experiences or at least we don’t have them in such a profound way. We need the sun, the moon, the stars, the rivers and the mountains and the trees, the flowers, the birds, the song of the birds, the fish in the sea. All of this evokes something in our inner world, evokes a world of mystery. It evokes a world of Sacred and gives us that sense of awe and mystery.

. . .

             Thomas Berry's latest book, The Great Work, is published by Random House.